TOM BRADY IS OVERRATED

Tom Brady is a great quarterback.

Maybe even greater than great in the modern era, but it’s time to stop the talk about him being the best ever and not because he didn’t “win” his fourth Super Bowl.

Eli Manning is better.

If the Giants had fumbled on their last possession and lost 17-15, I would have said the same thing.

All night, I kept thinking “Is this guy( Brady ) ever called upon to make a difficult throw?”

The answer was no.

When he did have to make some tough, non-dink and dunk throws on the Patriots second to last possession, he threw two passes behind his receivers and, on both of them, Chris Collinsworth blamed the receivers.

The game has been over for about 10 minutes as I’m writing this and I have yet to hear anybody point out that Manning’s 38 yard pass to Manningham on the Giants last possession was one of the best passes ever thrown in an NFL game.

**************UPDATE**************UPDATE**********************************************

(Finally on ESPN Cris Carter said, “The throw was better than the catch.”  He also pointed out that, in his last two Super Bowls, Brady has attempted 13 passes that went 20 or more yards in the air and he’s 0-13. I don’t know what’s more pathetic — fact that he only threw 13  twenty yard passes or the fact that he didn’t complete any of them.)

************UPDATE ***********************UPDATE******************************

Manningham made what might be called a great catch but it was not as good as the throw and it’s a catch that ANY good NFL receiver should make.

Collinsworth (maybe because he’s a former reciever) went on and on about how Manningham did everything he had to do — keep his feet in bounds, hold on to the ball etc.

Manning had only one place to put the ball. There were two defenders nearby and he had to keep it in bounds. And this was no dink.

It was a 45 yard PERFECT pass.

As I was watching the game I kept thinking about how ridiculous it is to try to compare modern quarterbacks to quarterbacks from long ago.

This game was a dink and dunkfest, but I thought Manning was called on to actually complete passes downfield more often.

I also kept thinking about how the old timers were called on to throw passes downfield AND call their own plays.

I just heard Bob Costas, as I’m writing this, say that, if Brady and Belichick had won tonight, they would have to have been in the conversation as the best coach and quarerback of all time.

So, if Brady’s hail Mary had bounced off of three guys and ended up in a Patriots’ reciever’s hands, he would have instantly become the greatest quarterback ever? But now, maybe he’s not?

Please.

You will be watching and hearing about Mario Manningham’s catch for the rest of your life.

Remember that it was  a ball that should have been caught and it was one of the best clutch throws any quarterback in any era has ever made in a championship game.

 

 

  • Ken

    This doesn’t call Brady the greatest ever, but it pretty well defends his Super Bowl performance. And it says that if you don’t think he’s the best ever, fine, but don’t base that on this game. Makes a lot of good points.

    http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/writers/michael_rosenberg/02/06/brady.legacy/index.html?xid=cnnbin

    I think this is fair as well (from this article):

    “Did Brady complete a bunch of passes downfield? No, he did not. But have you seen his roster? His leading receiver is 5-foot-9 Welker, a possession receiver. His second-leading receiver is a tight end. His third-leading receiver is another tight end. His fourth-leading receiver is another 5-9 guy, Branch, who is 32 years old.

    Good players, all of them. But who in that group seems like a deep threat to you? Bill Belichick answered this question last summer: Nobody. That is why he acquired Chad Ochocinco — he was supposed to be that deep threat. Unfortunately Ochocinco is neither deep nor a threat.”

  • JB

    Greeny had a great line on Mike and Mike today when he was talking about comparing Kobe to Magic Johnson. He said “We tend to romanticize players/events that happened in our youth”.

    That statement basically sums up the nostalgic world that clouds your judgements on just about every single sports-related subject that you talk about.

    How is it possible that everything and everyone from the past is the greatest ever and nothing else compares!? You literally argue this on all levels, even down to the actual game experience.

    P.S. Kobe is better than Magic.

    • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

      I’ll take your word for it on Kobe. I’ve never seen him play more than 5 minutes of any game. I don’t discount the possibility that Brady or other current QBs are the best ever. I just don’t think you can make the statement based on stats because of the diffetence in the rules. Brady does NOTHING better than Terry Bradshaw or any of the great QBs of that era. There was a time when you didn’t need the word “experience” to follow the word “game.” Fans were fans of the sport rather than fans of being fans. Dressing up was not required.

  • youroldproducer

    stags… love the new video rants… good to see you still have your hairline… i cant say the same for myself…

    like you, i would love to see brady and peyton play in the old days, just to see how “great” they would be… i got two names for you: both big men with strong arms, who were immobile:

    earl morrall and norm snead… good, but not great…

    i have a feeling that both those guys would also closely resemble kenny anderson… great stats, but struggled in the playoffs cause the team could only play one style… and at least kenny anderson was mobile…

    i dont agree on montana though… yes, his offense was dink and dunk, but he was a swashbuckler, throwing off of the run, and drawing up stuff in the dirt… and he was as clutch as anybody…

    like you, i think bradshaw is outrageously underrated… he could make any throw, and make plays with his feet…

    • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

      Yep. The hairline is pretty good for a guy my age. The waist line got out of hand and I’m working on that. Your boy Charles got me. I’m starting my fourth week of weight watchers. I didn’t weigh myself. I go by my gut. I’ve lost at least two inches already. Tell Mr. Barkley that I’d be more than happy to represent my age group in a commercial with him.

  • Mike from Monroeville

    Isn’t Joe Montana overrated too. All he did was dink and dunk.

    • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

      Actually, I think he was also a great QB who is overrated. I think to say that he is the best ever is to overrate him. I don’t know if it’s possible to definitively say that one guy is the best ever. He’s in the conversation, for sure but I think the west coast QBs fatten their stats and benefit greatly from the system.

      • Blasto

        Let’s talk underrated qb…Kenny stabler.

  • Erik

    Today while I was driving in the car to north Carolina I was listening to the Virginia version of The Fan. For about 45 minutes they reassured us about 60 times that Tom Brady was still the best qb in the league and that if gronkowski was 100 % it would have been a different ending. I’ve never heard such an apology fest for one guy.

    They also kept focus on manning and Brady and acted like there were no other people on the field. Bobzilla is right. Too many people focus on the qb position

    • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

      I would not take Brady striaght up for ELi Manning.

  • JWK

    Just thought it was beautiful seeing the greatest QB of all time give away two points on his first pass attempt. That play typifies Brady he’s not very tough, many QB’s hang in there a bit or scramble before throwing it away. Better throws by him late in the game would have meant a lot. That interception on the throw to Gronkowski was pathetic. Yes, his usually sure handed supposedly great receivers choked but so did Tommy Boy.

    • Ken

      I’d love to hear the Steeler fan reactions if they called a safety on a Roethlisberger pass like that. It would have made for a fun drive home from work listening to the callers to radio shows.

      I think it was a BS call, but I’ve always had issues with intentional grounding calls. On that Brady play, who’s to say that a receiver didn’t blow a route? Are the officials in the QB’s head? Is it any less “intentional” grounding when a QB throws a pass 50 feet over a receiver’s head out of bounds? Everyone knows those passes are intentionally thrown away.

  • The Machinist

    Brady will go down as one of the greats of all time. The greatest of all time in any sport, at any position, will always be debatable. That said, his winning percentage, super bowl wins, super bowl appearances, touchdown passing record in 07 ect. all speak for themselves. Yesterday he threw a bad pick, but Welker sure let him down, it may not have been his best throw but the receiver has to make that catch that is what he is paid to do.

    • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

      People are overrating the difficulty of the Manningham catch and underrating the difficulty of the Welker catch. Welker had to twist his body as he was going away from the ball and Brady had some serious mustard on that throw. I think, too often, people forget to take velocity of the throw into account. That’s one of the things that made Holmes’ Super Bowl winning catch so impressive. That ball was hummed and he couldn’t afford to let it bounce off his hands by even a fraction of an inch.

      • Blasto

        That ball had to be hummed. Ben put that in a space about the size of the football he threw. A great catch but one of the best throws I have ever seen.

        • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

          A BB.

  • Dr. Phibes

    JS has said this before, but fans take these games way more serious than the players. Looks like some of the Pats were having a real good time after the game, SBowl champs or not.

    http://network.yardbarker.com/nfl/article_external/backyard/rob_gronkowski_matt_light_danced_shirtless_on_stage_after_patriots_loss_pictures/9794887?refmod=backyard

    • Ken

      I’m sure some Pats fans are pissed off by this, and Steeler fans would be calling in death threats to players who did this after a Steeler loss.

      It’s just a game. They take it seriously, but when it’s over, it’s over. Life goes on, why sulk?

      Some fans seem to think that there should be a mourning period after a loss, like after a death.

      They look kinda gay.

      • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

        I rode on the Steelers charter for over 20 years. There was no perceptible difference in the way the players acted on the plane after a loss.

        • Bobzilla

          Were they partying on the plane after the Super Bowl 30 loss?

          • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

            No. That plane didn’t leave until the next morning. Bur there was a party at the Steelers hotel if I remember correctly. It’s amazing but fans seem to take the losses…or at least show that they do….harder than the players.

      • Mike from Boston

        I’m sure those same people exhibit the same kind of solemn gloom when they have a bad powerpoint presentation.

      • Erik

        I know a patriots fan who admitted to crying after the game. Wonder what his reaction was when he saw this?

  • Mark

    Brady is a reflection on the game of flag football which the NFL has become. The steelers season ended on a 15 yard penalty to Ryan Clark at the end of first half of second steelers and ravens game enabling ravens to kick field goal which ended up the difference and game and season. I have been watching football for 40 years this call exemplifies what this league wants touch football. What happened to games that ended with the winning team wearing there opponent out in the 4 quarter with overwhelming physical play and breaking the other teams will. I long for real football, football I grew up watching, playing and loving. Why have they ruined the game I love. I quess this is the computer game age of pass and catch.

    • Mike from Monroeville

      Maybe you can feed the apple sauce to these heroes of yours when they hit 60 and cant do more than that.

  • Mike from Boston

    Good show today, John. I especially liked the bit about the obscene time delay between plays, it’s so true.

    I heard this somewhere, I don’t know how accurate the numbers are or if you can confirm/refute them, but in a 3+ hour broadcast, and a 60 minute game clock, there’s on average about 17 minutes of actual gameplay-action during a game of pro football. Talk about the NFL getting our money’s worth.

    …and soccer is still the more boring sport even if it is constant “action” vs a “series of meetings” (aka huddles).

  • oksteelerfan

    I agree it was a much better throw than catch.
    Another thing I like about Eli is he can get the snot knocked out of him and he doesn’t get up whining and pointing fingers.

    • Blasto

      Good observation OK. I see almost every Game and have never seen him do it…..not once.

  • Ken

    Brady made a pretty fair throw to Welker on the next-to-last drive. If that pass isn’t dropped, the game probably turns out differently.

    • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

      It wasn’t a good throw. Neither was the one to Branch. I hear a lot of apologies being made for Brady that aren’t made for other QBs. Maybe Welker should have caught the ball, but the greatest QB ever should make a better throw. I heard one analyst say that , on the interception, Brady may have forgotten that Gronkowski couldn’t jump as high. There was a time when a pass like that was referred to as a “wounded duck,”

      • JustAnotherBloke

        Or is it a wounded dunk?

      • Ken

        That interception was a terrible throw. They’ve talked about Brady’s shoulder having been an issue. I wonder if it was. You may not agree, but I’ve seen him be a very effective long passer, but late in the season and in the playoffs his long throws were just not good at all. No real zip on them.

        I thought the pass to Welker was good. Hit him in the hands.

        • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

          The greatest QB in history should have hit Welker in STRIDE

      • colt

        And can you imagine if it was Tebow who made those throws instead of Brady. Everyone would be saying that those throws prove that Tebow can’;t throw the ball; he is not a good passer. But with Brady, they blame everyone else.

  • Niblick

    I agree that throw by Manning had to be perfect to be completed. But, I question whether or not he should have even thrown it. I think it was a poor decision on his part to throw it up between two defenders. If it was intercepted, everyone would have said how dumb of a throw that was.

    I still think Brady is one of the most consistent quarterbacks ever. Manning has his ups and downs during the year. He plays well in the big games but overall he is very inconsistent. Twenty years from now you won’t be talking about Manning, but you will be about Brady.

    • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

      Brady has made a living throwing 8 yard passes. You saw what happened when he tried to throw the ball beyond 20 yards yesterday. He’s 0-13 in the last two Super Bowls on passes that go 20 yards or more in the air. He’s the greatest dink and dunk passes of all time. Joe Montana is a distant second.

      • oksteelerfan

        He’s also not very consistent when he faces pressure. IMO any QB could be consistent when they’re getting all day to throw.

      • Dan

        Brady’s yards per attempt are right there with anyone in football. In fact he has more YPA this year than Brees or Roethlisberger – Brady 8.6, Brees 8.3, Roethlisberger 7.9. Flacco had 6.7, Matt Stafford 7.6, and Eli Manning 8.4. Rodgers crushed everyone with 9.2.

        You don’t get more YPAs than all those “downfield throwers” just by dinking and dunking. Go watch the replay of Brady’s 99 yard touchdown pass from week 1 to Wes Welker against the Miami Dolphins and tell me he can’t throw downfield. /he’s only ever had 1 downfield receiver to throw to in his career – Randy Moss – and when those two were together they were busy raping and pillaging defenses for massive chunks of yards.

        Just sayin, the bias against Brady in this town is jealousy and nothing more. He has a track record of 10 years of dominance that speaks for itself.

        • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

          His YPA is inflated by all those yards aftet the catch. He’s perfectly capable of throwing down field. Hr’s rarely asked to do it. Go fcc he cv k out Daunte Culpepper’s stats when he had Moss to throw to. Check his stats when he didn’t.

    • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

      If.

  • notolucky

    I thought the Manningham pass and catch were better than the Rothlisberger, Holmes play on both ends.

    • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

      I think Holmes’ catch was tougher. Roethlisberger throw was great but not as good as Manning’s.

      • Gary M

        Yes, but Rothlisberger had to throw his twice because Holmes dropped the first one. He put both passes on the money…..

        • Bobzilla

          Roethlisberger has been in three Super Bowls. He’s thrown a total of what? Three TD passes? The one against that mighty Arizona defense covered SIX yards… Some quarterbacks and their offenses carry their teams, while some quarterbacks and their offenses are carried by their defenses. The “elite” QBs are the ones whose offenses do the carrying.
          In two Super Bowls, both against the high-scoring Brady Patriots, Mannings’ defense has allowed just 31 points. In those same two SBs, Manning’s offense has scored 36 points. Defense still wins championships…

          • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

            Roehtlisberger’s throw on the winning TD against Arizona was spectacular–every bit as good as the catch.

          • Bobzilla

            OK.
            And James Harrison’s 100-yard interecption return was even more spectacular…

          • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

            Absolutely.

    • Belicheater

      Dude. Ben’s to Holmes was a game winning TD. Manning to Manningham was great, but all it did was get them to midfield. I don’t think the two are comparable.

      If Manningham drops that pass, the Giants would still have the ball and by the looks of things, probably still drive up the field and score.

      • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

        You’re talking about situations not throws. Roethlisberger’s throw was spectacular and meant more. Manning’s throw was better.

  • GeeWhiz

    I think Chris Collinsworth and all the other talking heads went out of their way to “spectacularize” the Manningham catch. It was a great throw, he couldn’t help but catch it. But he did a good job keeping his feet in bounds. Overall, it was a pretty boring Super Bowl and that catch was the longest play from scrimmage at the time. A whopping 38 yards. <> They needed something to be excited about and that was all they had to work with.

  • Vermonter

    For my money, the throw on the play down the far sideline where Manningham DIDNT make the catch was just as good. As Collinsworth noted, Manningham got lazy on the end of the catch, and took himself out of bounds.

    Also, on the radio coverage after the game, James Lofton asked Manningham whether he knew how close he was on the big catch. the answer: “I had no idea.”

    • Belicheater

      Manningham was having an AWFUL game before that last drive.

      He dropped a huge pass after that holding call on 3rd and 1 in the 2nd quarter. He drifted out of bounds on another sideline bomb later in the game, when all he needed to do was jump and catch it in order to stay in bounds. And finally, he got interfered with on that 3rd down by Sterling Moore, but never asked for a flag from the refs. If he had, there’s a decent chance he’d have been awarded the flag.

      He was tremendous on the final drive, but let’s not forget how awful he was before that. He’ll get a big $ deal in free agency, but quite frankly, I’d be hesitant to sign him.

      • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

        Manning’s throw on the one where Manningham ran out of bounds was almost as good as the 38 yarder.

    • franji1

      I thought it was funny that NBC already had the “this is how to run a fly pattern, this is how NOT to run a fly pattern” graphic.

  • Matt

    Couldn’t agree more John. He has benefitted from having the same head coach and essentially the same offense all his career. Chad Johnson is a good at catching the ball, but the NE offense puts so much of the burden on it’s receivers that he has a hard time getting on the field because of the complexity of what they ask their receivers to do. You can’t argue with the numbers Brady has put up, but if you took the top 5 QBs and switched them around as far as teams, the other 4 would all perform better in the NE offense than Brady would in their offense, with the exception of maybe GB because they are somewhat similar.

  • Matt C.

    Great comments. I think that people still think that because we are Steeler fans that we do not like Brady because he beat them in to AFC Championship games. That has nothing to do with it. He is overrated. And as for Collinsworth I always take what he says and when he is especially commenting on a Steeler game and just remember the beatings he took and put it into proper consideration and look at the source. He is right up there with John Madden. A joke of professional broadcaster.

  • Dan

    So for 11 years, Tom Brady has had to do nothing but dink and dunk, has had amazing offensive lines in the era of free agency, and is no better than Terry Bradshaw ever was, but he somehow managed to play his way into 5 Super Bowls, which accounts for 50% of his career when you knock out the ACL year, he won 3 championships, and is at the top of the argument for greatest QB ever…..and he’s overrated???? Who are you comparing him to, God himself????

    If what Tom Brady does and has been doing is so simple, why hasn’t anyone else come close to the degree of his success over the last decade?

    Get to the top and people tear you down, that’s all.

    • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

      He has been widely acclaimed as the best QB of all time. He’s not. That’s the definition of overrated. That doesn’t mean he’s not a great QB. Just not the slam dunk greatest ever as way too many like to claim. He does nothing better than Terry Bradshaw or many, many other QBs I could name. BY the way, in his last two Super Bowls he has attempted 13 passes that traveled 20 or more yards in the air. You know how many he completed?
      None.

      • colt

        It is amazing to me, John, that people just write off Bradshaw. Eevn the way Dan sarcastically says it above: “…Brady…is no better than Bradshaw..” as if to say that that puts Brady on some low level QB quality. Brady is a flat out great quarterback, but so was Bradshaw. I don’t get it. What makes people think Brady is so much better than Bradshaw?

        Maybe too much time has passed or something, but I just do not think Brady is better than Terry Bradshaw. If you were starting a team and you know what you know right now, who do you take – Bradsdhaw or Brady? I would be happy with either, but I am not disadvantaged at all if I get Bradshaw…I’ll take him any time.

        • Dan

          Staubach’s numbers are 1,000 times better than Bradshaw. Bradshaw’s QB rating is 70.9, Staubach’s is 83.9, a massive difference, and Staubach the 100+ fewer interceptions. Brady is better than both. An interesting question is actually, because so many people think Brady is just a product of Belichick’s system, would Bradshaw or Staubach do just as good, better, or not as good as Brady has? Well, it just so happens that Brady has the highest win percentage of all-time, 78%, and Staubach is the only one even close at 74%. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Most_wins_by_a_starting_quarterback_(NFL)

          But again, the point is Bradshaw doesn’t belong in the discussion of best QBs ever. Showed up in the biggest 4 games of his life, no question about that, but those don’t make your whole career. Ask any Ben Roethlisberger apologist who makes excuses for his playing like a dog in 2 Super Bowls.

          • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

            Bradshaw came to a team that was 1-13 the year it drafted him and was made the starter his first day on the job. His career stats are misleading because of playing as a young QB on a bad team his first couple of years. He also played his first 8 years in a league in which dinking and dunking would not have been possible. He was required to, you know, throw the ball DOWN FIELD. He never lined up in the shotgun and he never had more than 3 wide receivers on a play. Staubach came into the league as a 25 year old rookie. He was 31 years the first season that he started 14 games (a full season) and he was playing for a Super Bowl caliber team. Bradshaw was the best QB in the league in 1978 when he was 30 and was MVP in the Super Bowl. Bradshaw was better than Staubach, Staubach was better than Brady and so was Bradshaw. Brady does NOTHING better than either of them. Brady is a great 21st century dink and dunk QB. He might have been great in any era. It is ridiculously easy to complete a pass in the 2012 NFL. The league went out of it’s way to make that happen, long after Bradshaw and Staubach had been in the league. There’s not a person in football who would say that it’s not easier to complete a pass now. There’s no reason to believe that Bradshaw and Staubach, both of whom threw as well or better than Brady and were more mobile would have the same ridiculously inflated passing stats as the best current QBs. There is some question whether current QBs would do as well as Bradshaw and Staubach did when it was much tougher. 1978 was the first year of the rules changes that were implemented to MAKE IT EASIER TO COMPLETE A PASS. Check out Bradshaw’s stats that season. I think he was AFC offensive player of the year. Bradshaw and Staubach played in both eras. Brady has only played in the Easier to Pass era.

            Make sure you watch enough of this video to see his RUNS.

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2U1Xtci4PBw

          • Dan

            So Bradshaw is in the discussion, but only when you throw out literally every stat in the book (QB rating, win %, TD-INT totals and ratio, etc etc), make a lot of excuses and go with the ever-subjective eyeball test.

            By the way, it’s easier to complete a pass than ever, and I agree to a point, yet there’s still only about 5-10 QBs in the league even capable of taking their team to a Super Bowl. That doesn’t add up.

          • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

            It’s idiotic to base it only on stats. The league has spent othe last 30 years doingeverything possible to mke it easier to pass. Lok at Johnny Unitas’ stats..Joe Namath’s… Unitas had at least one seasowhen he had more interceptions than TD passes. Can you imagine that happening to the WORST starting QB in the NFL? I saw both play and Brady does NOTHING better than Bradshaw. Bradshaw wa more mobile and had a stronger arm.

          • Rich

            It Terry Bradshaw had played his entire career without the bump and run, with offensive lineman being able to fully extend their arms and in an an era when five-yard passes routinely turn into 20 yard gains he would have put up incredible numbers. The guy had arguably the strongest arm during his era and didn’t shy from throwing the ball deep. He was a great deep ball thrower and didn’t mind taking chances. Oh and he also called his own plays something which is rarely done by today’s quarterbacks.

            Oh and those people who don’t include guys like Bradshaw and Staubach in the list of the greatest quarterbacks ever just aren’t very smart. Period.

          • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

            I’ll say it again. Brady does NOTHING better than Bradshaw and Bradshaw was better than Brady throwing deep, scrambling and running. Ben Roethlisberger does NOTHING better than Terry Bradshaw. Neither do Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Aaron Rodgers or Phillip Rivers.

      • kessdaman

        John,
        I’ve been saying this for years. In the two Super Bowls where he led drives, the scored was tied and they only needed a FG. He’s never done the drive for a TD to win the game. The Ben SB43 drive on needed a FG, yet he delivered the game winning TD, something not on the Brady resume. The 20+ stat is amazing. Tells quite a story. No tape, no half time locker room mikes, no win, that is the Brady/Bellicheat legacy.

      • Dan

        I think it’s quite obvious the Giants are to the Patriots what the Patriots are to the Steelers. And I have never heard anyone who wasn’t a a Patriots fan call him the slam dunk greatest ever. If he would have won this game, there would have been some people saying that. But educated people have a discussion with a few names, most people start with Montana and work their way down. Bradshaw is never in the discussion, it’s always Montana, Unitas, Elway, Manning, Brady, and Favre WAS there until he embarrassed himself at the end of his career.

        Stunning stat on Brady, I did not know that. Again, that’s the bad matchup for this team though. I think it’s Coughlin. He just has their number. The Giants look ordinary against many other teams and the Patriots look unbeatable against many others.

        • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

          You haven’t been paying attention if you think it’s only fans who have been calling him the greatest ever or saying that he would be the greatest ever if he had won yesterday. I’ve had national media people on my talk show say it. 50 years from now, when you look up “dink and dunk” you’ll find Brady’s picture. Montana also benefited greatly from the West Coast offense and runs after the catch. I would take Steve Young over him. You can have the dinkers and dunkers. Give me the guys who threw the ball down field.

        • Belicheater

          I never agreed with Elway. He might’ve been the most talented of the group, but let’s not forget he choked in 3 super bowls. Sure, he ended up winning two, but you can thank the Denver running game for them as much as anything else.

          Brady didn’t play great in his last 2 super bowls, but it’s a stretch to say he choked in them. Elway choked in 3 of them.

    • Gary M

      Dan,

      3 SB wins. All by 3 points. All while the team was cheating.
      Both losses coming when Vegas had them as the favorite.
      Brady’s a very good QB. He’s just never won the big game without the team cheating to get there. Oh, and he comes off as arrogant which doesn’t endear him to anyone outside of the Patriot organization and fan base.
      He’ll go into the Hall, just like Marino and Kelly

      • Dan

        What if the other teams were “cheating” too? Ever wonder how Jake Delhomme got to a Super Bowl?

        Brady comes off as arrogant? He comes off no more cocky and confident than any other top-flight QB in history. Montana, Marino, Elway, Roethlisberger, they all had swagger and an inflated sense of self-worth. That’s why they were the best.

        How do you think Roethlisberger is perceived outside of the Steelers fan base???

        • Belicheater

          What if? If “ifs and buts” were candy and nuts…

          We know for a FACT that New England cheated. Furthermore, whatever happened with those “extra radio frequencies” from Gillette stadium the NFL was supposedly investigating (and then swept under the rug)? Don’t you think it’s odd that former Patriot Mgmt official, Scott Pioli, has gotten caught bugging his own locker room in KC? Think he just started doing that when he got to KC?

          If you know what plays are coming, it’s an insane advantage in a game decided by milliseconds and millimeters.

          Ever notice how Belichick struggles more with guys from his own coaching tree or the coaching tree of Parcells? Hmmm…

      • Ken

        Brady comes off as arrogant or a “pretty boy” to the jealous fans of other teams. And the jealous guys who’ve seen his wife.

        The guy is a class act, totally focused on winning.

        He and his wife sure don’t need the money, but Brady leaves tens of millions of endorsement money on the table. He could have his mug plastered on everything, but he chooses not to. He endorses small numbers of products that he approves of. I respect that.

        Hatred of Brady reminds me of hatred for Sidney Crosby. Totally irrational.

        • Gary M

          Ken,

          First you address the cheating by saying, hey, other teams might have been cheating too. Can you try this defense if ever your auditing on your taxes. Gee Mr. IRS man I know that I falsified some deductions here but my neighbor might be cheating as well so we are even.

          Next, you call Brady’s perceived arrogance as irrational.
          So when opposing defensive players say he’s treated differently by the refs and NFL, that’s not true.
          When he tells the owner he’s the best move they ever made before playing a down, that’s not arrogant.
          When the Giants players say that his arrogance helped fuel their victory, they are just jealous.

          And your ‘proof’ that he isn’t arrogant? He only endorses a small number of products he and his foul mouthed wife approves of.

          It’s not a hatred of Brady, he is a very good quarterback. He’s just never won a Super Bowl without cheating on his side.

          • Ken

            I didn’t say that other teams cheating makes it okay. I said that someone else, in a position to know, said that the reason other teams didn’t have much to say publicly about the NFL’s response to Spygate was because they didn’t want to get the attention turned to them. There are more than a few people who said this stuff was widespread.

            Just like steroids in the 1970s. They were a controlled substance, illegal to use the way football players were using them (just because the NFL didn’t explicity outlaw them doesn’t mean it’s okay; they were still illegel) and I don’t defend their use. I also don’t think it lessens what the Steelers accomplished because other teams were doing the same thing.

            Using your tax example, it would be like someone is caught cheating in a minor way and everyone starts ranting on and on about what a horrible person they are, while many of those ranters are doing the exact same thing. The silence among the other teams in the NFL regarding Spygate is telling. Shouldn’t they all be livid, calling for Goodell’s head for not doing more?

            You’re a good example of the irrational Brady hater with the “he’s being treated differently by the fefs and NFL” statement. No, he’s not. You’re proof of that – opposing – LOSING – defensive players who’ve been beaten time and again by Brady’s team say that it isn’t fair. The Patriots are getting special treatment. That’s called whining. Being a sore loser.

            Interesting how the “cheating” only seems to effect the Pat’s ability to win a Super Bowl and not all the other games.

          • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

            I don’t think that the silence of the other owners necessarily means that it was widespread. Even if the Patriots were the only ones doing it and even if the owners knew that, it was in their best interest to make it go away as quickly as possible.

          • Ken

            Brady not endorsing tons of products and leaving tens of millions of dollar on the table may not prove that he’s not arrogant, but it does show a certain integrity to only endorse products that you really approve of.

  • Dr. Phibes

    This is going to sound heartless, probably because it is, but I’m calling BS on the supposed inspiration that the Patriot players had as a result of the death of Myra Kraft. Most of the Pat players majored in thuganomics, are hired mercenaries, and will be the first to tell you that its all about the benjamins, So I find it nothing more than a fabricated story that all the Patriots were single-mindedly inspired to “Win One For Myra”. Only if the individual is one of the most beloved owners in all sports could I perhaps believe that a team could come together like that for that reason. But for the wife of an owner, who had no real role with the team? Wanna bet that not even half the Pat players knew what she looked like?

    But this is a nice Olympic-style human interest story that scores points with all the casual female football fans that the NFL is always trying to attract, truthful or not.

    • IsraelP

      Al Michaels said that the MHK is for Myra Kraft, the widow of the Patriots’ owner.

    • Ken

      The Krafts seem like they’re pretty involved with the team. Mr. Kraft is a class act. I think that the players likely knew his wife, at least somewhat. And they wore the initials out of respect for Mr. Kraft.

      Do you really believe that the Pats players are more thug-like than any other teams? James Harrison? Hines Ward, one of the most disliked players in league history for his many cheap shots?

  • Bobzilla

    We live in a quarterback-obsessed society. It’s no longer about teams. It’s now about “the legacy of quarterbacks.” Maddening. Very, very maddening.
    Back in the day, when quarterbacks actually played a huge role in deciding the destiny of their teams by calling their own plays (sans Roger Staubach), quarterbacks never received the attention that they do now.
    For the past 25 years, it’s been all about catering to the casual, jersey-attired, beer-guzzling, dumb-as-a-box-of-rocks fan rather than about promoting football as the ultimate team sport.

    • Mike V

      QBs back then had a limited playbook. Modern QBs are required to know more plays and make more reads than QBs of the past. They are also asked to understand and execute more complex plays. I’m not sure how that puts them in less of a position to decide the outcome of games. QBs are asked to do more today than they ever have.

      Football has evolved into a much better game today than it was 50 years ago. 25 years ago, there were still stars in the league and team maximized their talents. It is still a team game where star players are still being maximized. Play design is just more improved to maximize the ability of the stars.

      As far as the average football fan being stupid about the game, I couldn’t disagree more. There is more information about the game than there was 25 years ago. Not only from writers, but NFL.com has full access to any stat a fan would want to read. They are more informed about the modern game. It just isn’t a game you like to watch.

      • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

        QBs back then had offensive linemen who weren’t allowed to extend their arms when blocking. Try having an empty backfield under those conditions. The quarterbacks called their own plays and, if they ever did get the time to throw that Brady gets, what they saw downfield were three receivers instead of five (the other two players were pass blocking) and they were getting knocked on their ass 15-20 yards downfield. The 90+ yard drive a the end of the first half yesterday was a perfect example of the difference. Brady threw one pass that went more than 10 yards in the air. There are more plays to learn but modern QBs aren’t required to make nearly the number of difficult, downfield throws that the guys from the 60s and 70s had to make.

        • Bobzilla

          Stats seldom tell the story.
          In this season’s two conference games, for example, Brady won because of a missed field goal, while Manning won because of a speacil team’s fumble…
          Football is a four-phased, team sport: Offense, defense, special teams and coaching (game-planning). Football is so much more than just about a quarterback that everages 10 yards per attempt. Football is about an offense scoring points and a defense not allowing points. Everything else, except for maybe turnovers, is basically irrelevent.
          There are a lot of people out there pretending to be fans who are crazy about a sport they know next to nothing about. I’m no expert, but I do know that there’s more to the game of football than just the quarterback position. There’s no better example of that than right here in Pittsburgh.

        • sherm

          I tend to agree, but the most recent modern day QB throw is the Tebow to whatever that guys name was to win the game in OT. Remember the the throw Kenny Stabler made to Clarence Davis in the end zone? I believe it was an AFC championship game.

          • JB

            Mike V is on the money. Quarterbacks are so much more advanced now than they were even 20 years ago. Coaches, players, and even schemes have evolved well beyond the level that Bradshaw, Staubach, Montana, etc… had to deal with. Maybe the NFL has changed the rules to make the league more pass happy, but don’t discount just how much more mentally advanced that position has had to become. The modern QB in the NFL understands and comprehends defenses that would make Bradshaw and company blush. Tom Brady is simply having to do it with a limited arsenal nowadays. Go back to when he had Randy Moss and you will see that he was not just a “dink and dunk” quarterback. He has just been forced to play the hand of players thats been dealt.

            And you keep going back to the point that QBs used to call their own plays when its well documented that there are QBs that still do, ever watch Peyton Manning? Even Bruce Arians has stated that Roethlisberger is calling his own plays.

          • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

            Bradshaw would call plays at the line of scrimmage, too. They were called audibles. Joe Walton was the Steelers offensive coordinator in 1990 and his playbook was a thick binder –it was ridiculously complex. Calling a play in the huddle (with no speaker in your helmet) is different from calling a play after the defense shows you what it’s going to do. Bradshaw did BOTH. QBs were critiqued on their play calling. That’s why we have a term called “Monday Morning Quarterbacking.” Quarterbacks literally have a guy whispering a play in their ear and you’re saying that’s easier than calling every play himself?

      • oksteelerfan

        There is your problem with modern fans, they know the stats, sadly watching the game there are many who are clueless.

  • Jeff S

    Its ridiculous how much time Brady has to throw. Last TD – he rolls right, back pedals left, nobody is even close to getting his jersey dirty – and releases the ball after 5 seconds. 4th quarter Giants get pressure and Brady wilts.

    • Matt

      I couldn’t believe the play where he barely got touched and they said the doctors were looking at him. Good thing he has that o line.

  • Carl

    Collinsworth is a Patriot and especially Brady fan. I watch him in various shows including Inside The NFL on Showtime. He’s always talking up the Pats. I wish he would just give it up. Everythings not Pats, Pats, Pats.

  • G-Man

    The game held your interest, but only because it stayed close. Otherwise I kept complaining to my buddies at the SB party I attended how boring the offenses were, especially New England’s, with all their dinks and dunks. No big spectacular plays.

    There’s no denying that the Brady offense can be effective at times. There’s also no denying that it feels cold and antiseptic and extremely boring to watch. There’s just not much excitement in little slant passes to some smurfs and a couple of tight ends all day. **yawn**

    When the NYG pass rushers finally started getting a little pressure up the middle Brady again showed chinks in his armor. Everything has to be smooth or he folds up.

    • Ken

      Super Bowls always have trouble holding my interest and I do a lot of channel surfing. So many commercial breaks, some of them really long. Unlike a lot of peole, I don’t give a damn about all those supposedly “clever” and “funny” commercials. They’re commericals – that’s refrigerator, bathroom, and seeing what else is on time.

      The pacing of these games is just terrible. Whenever it gets interesting, we have to see more reasons to drink a Coke.

  • franji1

    Eli’s a football player, unlike his opponent at the same position or his brother. If QBs were given the option to wear pink dresses and flags (and hence cannot be tacked, just their flag removed), or wear a jersey and no special “rules” – Eli would wear a jersey, Peyton and Tom would choose to wear pink dresses.

    • BJM

      Really, what information are you using to base you statement? All three are NFL quaterbacks who have great success withe their style of play.

    • Ken

      So, Eli gets sacked and rushed and harassed by his choice? He could have an offensive line that protects him like NE’s line protects Brady, but Eli doesn’t want that?

      New England builds it offense around a great line that protects a great QB. So has Indianapolis. That makes their quarterbacks sissies somehow? Should Peyton and Brady ask for less effective pass blocking?

      • franji1

        When one QB takes a hit, they whine at the referee and expect a flag against the D any time they are touched. Or the same QB will stand in the pocket, and on the slim chance they are going to get hit, they throw the ball 30 yards down field AND TAKE A SAFETY IN THE SUPERBOWL. Other QB’s take a hit, their helmet is twisted, full of dirt, and they’re jumping up looking for the referee to call timeout.

        One’s a football player, one’s wearing a pink dress – you tell me which one is which.

  • JustAnotherBloke

    “As I was watching the game I kept thinking about how ridiculous it is to try to compare modern quarterbacks to quarterbacks from long ago.”

    I think it’s just as useless to compare any players or coachs of the game now to what it was back then. So much has changed (including rules, technology, and theory) that the games can’t be fairly compared.

    As for Belechick being the best coach of all time, in my eyes he gave up his position in that discussion, no matter what he does from here on, when he dishonored himself and his team.

    I don’t particularly like to root for the Mannings, but this was awful nice to watch.

    • Bobzilla

      Bellichick wasn’t the genius in Cleveland that he is now in Foxborough. Funny how that works.

  • Dr. Phibes

    That was a great pass by Eli, but it was a better catch by Manningham. You’re right, it was a pass the should have been caught. But catching it was only one part. He had to get both feet in bounds while his momentum was taking him out of bounds, had to maintain possession while falling to the ground, all the while 2 Patriots are right next to him. Sensational catch. Kind of reminded me of Swann’s ridiculous sideline catch in Super Bowl X.

    How about that lollipop Brady threw that got intercepted downfield….by a linebacker!

    Brady doesn’t handle pressure well at all. I realize you could say that about all QBs, but Brady is worse than most.

    It’s telling that for all the late game accolades Brady gets credit for, its a different story when he has to lead his team to a TD in the final minute as opposed to a FG. He got the ball with almost a minute left in the game at his 20 with 1 timeout, and couldn’t even get them to midfield.

    Still, he’s a great QB, but I would agree that he is not in the discussion for GOAT.

    • http://justwatchthegame.com John Steigerwald

      That ball has to be caught. It required a perfect pass for the ball to be in position to be caught. He had a lot of velocity on the throw. He didn’t parachute it in.If he had, the safety would have broken it up. Cris Carter said on ESPN: “The throw was better than the catch.”

    • Ken

      Brady doesn’t handle pressure well? Have you been paying any attention for the last decade? How many last-minute successful drives has this guy led?

      It didn’t exactly help him that Hernandez dropped that first pass on their last drive. Right in his hands, clank. With that little time left, it made a huge difference and Brady got sacked two plays later. They lost a lot of time.

      • Tim

        It was best Hernandez dropped that pass. It was an 8 yard crossing route where he would of been immediately tacked and more time would have run off the clock. Dinking and dunking works when you have plenty of time, but with under a minute left the ball needs to get downfield. Brady was incapable of doing that.

        • UPDave

          “Dinking and dunking works when you have plenty of time, but with under a minute left the ball needs to get downfield. Brady was incapable of doing that.”

          Wasnt that the case also in the last SB these two met? I remember Brady throwing wild/inaccurate bombs on their last 4 downs to try to get in FG range and none were close to being on target.